Did you know that in the United States, 25% of restaurant industry employees are Latin American? And that many of them work at the counters of pizzerias?
Last April in Parma, during the World Pizza Championship, I met Sofía Arango and Alessio Lacco. A couple – she is Venezuelan, he is Neapolitan – who runs a pizza truck in Atlanta, in the United States.
In 2023, Sofía had an intuition: to create a network that would unite all the representatives of the Latin American community who work in the pizza industry. Thus, the Instagram profile Latinos en Pizza was born.
The profile was immediately successful thanks to the collaboration and support of numerous pizza chefs, from the United States to Central and South America: the Latin representation in the sector is huge, and the project finally gave a voice to this vast community. From online communication to courses on real Neapolitan pizza held in different countries, the project took off immediately, reaching an audience of 15k followers in a year.
With Sofía and Alessio I talked about the mission of Latinos en Pizza and the enormous opportunities for the future. The chat was also recorded for my Italian podcast: if you do understand Italian you can listen to the episode from the Spotify player above. Otherwise, keep reading below.
Peppe: Welcome back to a new episode of Che Pizza – Il Podcast. We are still in Parma and we are in the company of a couple who have launched a very interesting profile. The profile is called Latinos en pizza, and we are going to introduce our guests: Sofía Arango and Alessio Lacco.
Sofía: Hello, hello. Thanks for inviting us.
Alessio: Thanks to you, Giuseppe, for being here with us.
Peppe: Let’s start with the Latin part of the couple that is Sofía, because she can explain how this profile was born, what it is mainly about, and what it represents in the community of reference. Oh, and a premise: Sofia is Venezuelan, she speaks a little Italian but I gave her permission to also speak Spanish in case she gets tired and can’t manage too much. We Italians are able to understand easily… or even English if you want.
Sofía: Yes, ok, fine, I’ll try. So, this Latinos en pizza project was born a year ago, at the end of April 2023. It was because I saw that there was, let’s say, a hole in the market where there were many Latin pizza makers who needed representation in the industry, and there are many Latins who do a wonderful job with pizza but there was no group with which they felt represented.
Peppe: So, Sofía, I’ll stop you for a moment because we have to make a small specification that I haven’t talked about, because now we will also present the pizza part of the couple. You actually live and work in the United States, so when we talk about the Latin community we mainly talk about the Latin community in North, Central and South America where it is obviously much larger than here in Europe. So the project certainly has territorial boundaries of reference. But we met in Parma also talking about how you can take it outside these borders, so now we will go into more detail. But let’s also start with Alessio: tells us where you live, where you work and what is the pizza project that you are carrying out.
Alessio: We are in Atlanta in the United States and as Sofía said the idea was born last year at the Pizza Expo in Las Vegas. It must be said that in the United States, Latin Americans represent 90% of the workforce in restaurants, so almost all pizza chefs are Latin Americans and we saw that we could give them a voice, [create] a sort of collaborative unity. We first started an Instagram page called Latinos en pizza, a Whatsapp group, and we noticed that this sort of unity is really being created between various pizza chefs from various nations. So we have people from Mexico, Venezuela, Chile, Brazil, Peru…
Peppe: I’ll stop you for a moment Alessio because we haven’t introduced you as a pizza chef yet, because you can also notice that Alessio doesn’t have a very South American accent, but he has an accent much more from my area. Tell us where you’re from and especially where you make pizza in Atlanta.
Alessio: I’m from Naples, originally from the Vomero district. I moved to the United States when I was twenty, I just got out of the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana, so I went to the United States to work for an associated pizzeria. This was in 2012, they were one of the few associated pizzerias [it was called] Cane Rosso in Texas, and they were opening the second location. And so, as if to say, just got out of the AVPN, I went there to work already having the documents. Thanks to my father who went to America 10 years before me, I had legal documents to work without any problems and I started my career as a pizza chef in the United States. In Italy I worked a little at Trianon, L’arte della pizza, but I kind of gained experience with 10 years of work in the United States between various pizzerias, various states. And finally in Atlanta I met Sofía, with whom we have a catering: it’s called Atlanta Pizza Truck. We started with an Apecar with a wood-fired oven on top, today we have two more units, two more ovens on wheels always for street pizza. We do private parties, events, we also work a lot in the entertainment world, we made pizza for The Rock, Chris Pratt, Nicole Kidman… […]
Peppe: Always in the Atlanta area or do you travel around?
Alessio: Let’s say we cover all of Georgia, we also reach Alabama, North Carolina, we did an event in Florida… if the client is willing to pay for our transfer we are willing to accept it.
Peppe: Let’s jump 3 years forward because the Latinos en pizza project was born last year. So, Sofía tell us again how it started, what was the spark that made you have the idea to start this profile and this communication project? Because then we will see that it has become more than an Instagram profile.
Sofía: I saw at the Pizza Expo that there were many Latinos interested in competing, having a name in the world of pizza, and after that we traveled a lot to Latin America, and I saw that when we traveled I thought that we could also do something else related to the world of pizza. And I also saw that there was a need for representation because there was no organization that connected all the Latin countries. That’s why it was born, and I decided to start making videos first about pizza chefs who worked in pizzerias that we knew, we also made videos for the AVPN, maybe they weren’t very well-known or important figures, but they had a sense of passion and love for pizza.
Peppe: Are you talking about pizza chefs who worked in their countries or also in the United States?
Sofía: We started first in the United States and then in other countries where we traveled last year. Yes there was a passion, it was very nice because when I did the post of the video interviews they and all the family, all the friends were very proud of them. And this was very very nice for me to see all these people who felt very represented, because maybe even if they had been working for 7 years, 10 years or I don’t know they had never had a person who went there and asked these things.
Peppe: Listen, I’ll ask you a question from a completely ignorant person. When we talk about the Latin community we obviously refer to all the populations of Central and South America, I don’t know if you also mean Latin European populations. More than anything my question is because I don’t want to say something stupid that then maybe they are also Spanish, Portuguese or whatever.
Sofía: And I was also asked that in Italy a couple of days ago, and of course there are many meanings of the word Latin and maybe it could also be people who have, let’s say, the descent of Latin as a language, but we focus on people in Latin America who were born or descendants of Latin Americans from all over the continent.
Peppe: My question was meant to be: at a time when there are so many countries between Central and South America, among other things with very different cultures, how do they all feel connected by this common Latin belonging. I mean, don’t these populations perceive differences between them? Like for example we Italians are similar to the Spanish, and the French, but we are three different populations. Or do they perceive a common Latin identity that keeps them connected? And I ask this question specifically also because in this vast geographical area there is also Brazil which alone represents almost a continent.
Sofía: It’s a bit of a complex question, I’ll try to answer… Let’s say that Latin identity is something that is also very connected to identity… It’s not easy to say because for example I’m Venezuelan, I’m perhaps different from people who are in Argentina or Chile, but we always have… I don’t know if they are characteristics in common, or maybe history, or maybe it’s the part of colonization that makes us have, let’s say, this union. Maybe also the language, but also in Brazil there is another language. But I think that it’s a historical fact and there are perhaps characteristics in common because the regions are connected. But the situation is that they are always very different.
Alessio: I’ll try to answer, as a person who see it from the outside […] I see it like this: for me, Spanish is my third language, at this point there is Italian, English and Spanish. Initially for me when someone spoke Spanish a Venezuelan, a Colombian, a Mexican was [the same]. Now slowly I can recognize the accent, so from the accent you can also recognize the various customs, the things they are proud of or not. For example, between Venezuela and Colombia there is this, quote unquote, war over the arepa: some say it is Colombian, and some say it is Venezuelan. And some people are very proud of it. Or tacos, tamales, ceviche, there are many types of food which are, how to say, their own, and some are from various nations. For example in Argentina, in Chile, in Venezuela there is a lot of Italian descent. When we did the tour in Colombia where we exported the real Neapolitan pizza what surprised me was how in Colombia we had participants, but not like in Venezuela. In Venezuela for example there are four AVPN-certified pizzerias: there are more certified pizzerias in Venezuela than in any other Latin country, this is because there is more belonging, there has been more Italian immigration. And from what I’ve noticed, each country is different, they speak the same language but with very different phrases or cultures. They have many different things, only the language belongs to them but for the rest, yes they are all different. Let’s say there’s some sort of competition, among various things everyone feels proud and happy of who they are, they don’t call themselves Latinos, [they say] I’m Venezuelan, I’m Colombian, I’m Argentinian… Everyone is strong in their own nation and however in a certain way with Latinos en pizza we are trying to unite them under, how to say, a single creed which is that of: we make pizza together and we go together to bring, to show who we are.
Peppe: This is excellent. By the way, I loved the fact that you used food as a term of reference to find the similarities and differences between the various cultures, which is always a key element. Another little question of an anthropological nature, then we bring the conversation back on the tracks of pizza, but I’m always curious: are indigenous populations considered part of the Latin population? Because over the centuries they have mixed with immigrants, so they are Latins to all intents and purposes.
Sofía: Of course, I think that they are also the first Latins […] I think that this mixture, you could say, that happened between the colonization of the Spanish was what defines the Latin identity the most.
Peppe: Now let’s talk about this activity that you have carried out physically: you have gone beyond the virtual, digital profile, and you have actually started to act on the territory. You had already done it in your area but you have actually crossed the US borders and you have undertaken this tour in Central and South America that was all dedicated to connecting these professionals of the Latin community and also to doing pizza courses. Tell us a little about it.
Alessio: And there is also a little anecdote regarding this tour, which we started to make the true Neapolitan pizza known in Latin America. As a good Neapolitan you must always try to export everything you can wherever you go. I did it in the United States, I have always been faithful to my origins, I have always worked in certified pizzerias or trying to help export good Made in Italy products. I have never found myself [working] at Domino’s Pizza, Papa Jones, things like that… […] I like the business behind Domino’s because they make tons of money, but the product, let’s say, is not the best […] So, we had this idea of doing courses in Latin America, obviously already having contacts with the AVPN for me it was, let’s say, simple to send an email, make the project known and then together with them try to see which companies were already on the market. So finding the product in the various countries, obviously if interested in expanding the market… There are many difficulties, for example in Venezuela or Costa Rica we had a lot of difficulty getting a product into the market…
Peppe: From an administrative, bureaucratic, logistical, cultural point of view?
Alessio: Everything. So, for example foras far as logistics are concerned, there are some countries that are closed especially on dairy products. In America you can import almost anything with simple paperwork. In Latin America you need a little more paperwork, the process is a little longer, a little more expensive so this already blocks a company that wants to invest in Latin America because then they also have to understand the return on investment. If I spend all this money to enter Costa Rica, for example, will Costa Rica then give me all this money back? Not only that, but there are countries where for example we talk about mozzarella, flour and tomato… Tomatoes come from Latin America, what do you do, trying to sell them back to them? Actually it doesn’t make much sense, you have to make people understand why there was also a cultural shock, when very good national flours cost half as much… Why should I buy imported flour that costs me double? Mozzarella: in Venezuela and Colombia there are water buffalos and Italian labor, so why should I perhaps buy imported mozzarella if I have it here? […] So you have to make it clear that if you want to make a Neapolitan pizza you obviously have to use products from Naples in our region.
Peppe: Well, but now I want to play devil’s advocate, especially because as a lover of global pizza and a lover of contaminations I believe that a Neapolitan pizza – not a true Neapolitan pizza according to the canons of the AVPN rules, but I am talking about a Neapolitan-style pizza – can also be made with equivalent products, if of good quality. Because at the end of the day what really matters is the mastery of the pizza chef, the expertise behind it, also finding products like flours… We have different ways of categorizing flours in Italy compared to many other countries, but when all is said and done, once the characteristics are the same, the product, the final result can be the same. Even if we are not using Italian products, can’t we find a middle ground, a compromise, to make sure that this thing can also work for them from an economic point of view, but always maintaining the Neapolitan identity? Which in my opinion is mainly linked to the history and style rather than the ingredients. Because I’m not saying let’s replace a buffalo mozzarella with a low-quality one, made with a mixture of milk that who knows where it comes from, but find the equivalent of a buffalo mozzarella that can be produced locally and use it as an excellent substitute.
Alessio: And this was exactly what amazed me. We saw that there are many quality products that maybe they don’t know how to use them or maybe many people don’t know about them. For example, in the United States there is a shop that sells a buffalo mozzarella that is made in Colombia. Arriving in Colombia in Bogota and talking to various Italians there they say “yes, I know this producer, they actually make a good product and we use it” so already there I say “Wow, now I understand why it is difficult to get an Italian product in”. Because there is the source material that is very good and people use it.
Peppe: Also, an Italian product that has to travel for days and arrives frozen compared to the fresh one you could get on the spot.
Alessio: Yes, and for example on flours there are many national flours that you can find at half or three times less in terms of price that make a good product, maybe not the same softness that a Neapolitan pizza can have, a little crispier but the product is good. Maybe they’re not the same, obviously they are different, but it is very close to the Italian product. We found products that are really close to the Italian ones and I was very surprised. Living in the United States it is difficult to find something like this, it is difficult to find a local mozzarella or a local flour. I always prefer to buy it from Italy. In Latin America what I noticed is that you can make a certified product if you want to use Italian products, but you can also make a good pizza with national products.
Peppe: There are two places in South America that have a very strong pizza identity. One is Brazil, with the city of São Paulo, so maybe not all of Brazil but mainly in São Paulo there is this really strong pizza community. And Argentina, which however also has its own very developed style of pizza that has nothing to do with the Neapolitan one, also because it actually descends from the Genoese, so in a way Italians have always been there. Have you been to these two countries?
Alessio: No.
Peppe: So my question changes: does it mean that you carefully avoided them or you simply couldn’t go there?
Sofía: We wanted to include these countries in the tour but on an economic level [it was difficult] because we had no sponsors, it was just Alessio and I, paying out of our own pockets. And to go to Argentina, after you went to Argentina to leave Argentina it was too expensive. Let’s say that to move between one country and another the plane ticket was $300, but after that if you went to Argentina to leave Argentina it didn’t matter where you went, it was $1000 and even more. It was very, very expensive […] even my friends told me that they have a couple of taxes on plane tickets, and then it was very expensive for us to go there. That’s why we decided not to go to Argentina or Brazil.
Peppe: But my question remains because, let’s say you could do a second edition with a sponsored tour, and therefore you could also cover these regions that have developed a very strong pizza identity anyway… How do you approach it? We know that you are talking about Neapolitan pizza, so it is different from the style of pizza that they actually have there… It is a bit like, well, to make an Italian comparison a bit like the one we Neapolitans have made with Rome: recently we managed to bring a bit of Neapolitan pizza to Rome that is becoming popular, but up until 5 years ago, let’s say, there was always this big conflict between Roman pizza and Neapolitan pizza, they were like water and oil, you couldn’t even put them close to each other. Don’t you think something like that could happen? Or instead, could there be more acceptance since Neapolitan pizza is becoming more and more popular? By the way, there are also many Neapolitan pizzerias in Argentina and Brazil.
Alessio: One thing about Latinos en pizza that must be said is that we don’t just defend a style of pizza, but we are open. The name Latinos en pizza is for all Latin Americans who make pizza. Maybe there is the one who makes the Neapolitan, the Roman or in this case the Argentine, the Brazilian… it is the Latin that makes pizza, it is not the Latin that makes the Neapolitan style. So to answer that question: it depends. It depends on how we go there and for what purpose we go, if we go to do the Neapolitan pizza course and [if we return for a second tour] I think we will only do these two countries because they are too big. We will first do a little advertising in advance to try to see who is interested there to connect these people.
Peppe: However, I have seen that in general the activity has been received very well because your profile has grown organically, but also quickly. I see so many contributions from so many pizza makers. Also tell us how you carry out the profile, if you have a content strategy, how all these pizza makers scattered throughout the territory also help you to produce this content, a little bit of the network you are creating… I am very curious about this creative part that is behind it.
Sofía: Well, everything was built quickly at the beginning, then we decided to hire a community manager, a person who manages the social networks, even if we have the ideas she helps us edit the videos and suggests some ideas. The editorial plan is something we did very recently […] and we decided to do interviews, recipes, tips… We have a section called “¿Sabías que?”, “Did you know?” that we do every week. We want to have different content, even entertaining ones because there are people who maybe aren’t professionals in the world of pizza, but they like it, they are pizza lovers and we want to take all these people, no, to find let’s say collaborators. We are always on social networks to see what other talents we find, we now have ambassadors who are I think five people, now, who help us a lot with the content. They are different profiles with different talents.
Alessio: Initially we saw a bit of what worked, so we did a bit of everything, and now we have understood what is attractive, what is not working… And we have understood, for example, that obviously you need to have a schedule, so every Sunday we have a video “¿Sabías que?”, on Friday we start with recipes, then we have entertainment videos, viral videos… Every day our community manager sends us the new trend, so the new music, the new type of video you have to make and it is cool to see things like that… See videos where maybe we have millions of views and I say “Wow, a small profile with 8k people (Editor’s note, now it is almost 20k) and we manage to have a very high engagement, because we really try to study the market also with various collaborators. We have Brand Ambassadors, maybe there is the professional pizza chef, there is the one who makes the recipes for you at home, the one who has the pizzeria, so different profiles… There is not only the professional pizza chef but there are various types and from various different countries, so there is the Colombian, there is the one from El Salvador, from Guatemala, Chile, Mexico… Precisely to unite the community. It is a job that in my opinion will take many years, what we are doing. We have some really big projects.
Peppe: So let’s talk about these projects, to get out of the Instagram profile and talk about projects in real life.
Alessio: Let’s start with this, so we are in Parma because our idea, our project is to make the whole world, but also companies, aware of the pizza chefs, the Latin talent. We noticed that in Parma the wave started 7-8 years ago, where there was the first Colombian pizza chef who came here without knowing the language, at his own expense, he didn’t know what the Parma championship was. He came and year after year obviously the word spreads, and today in Parma we have the Brazilian team, the Argentine team of only professionals who come here to compete, and to try to take home the cup.
Peppe: And as if on purpose, the two countries we mentioned before, which are the largest and have much more pizza culture.
Alessio: Our idea is to go one step further, bring a Latin team, then involve a representative from each country, create a team where there is the Colombian, the Venezuelan, the Chilean who work together in a single team and try to bring home the cup. This in Parma but also in the United States in Las Vegas. Why did we choose Parma? Because at the bureaucratic level of visas, for the South American pizza maker is easier to come to Ital,y there is no need for a visa like for the United States. So if someone wants to compete it is much easier to come here to Italy. Our future idea is to also create events in their countries because today there are no pizza festivals like there may be in Naples, in Parma, so create something at home and bring competitions, also for those who perhaps cannot travel on our tours. For example, since many talents don’t know how to use social media, so no one knows them, there’s a pizza chef from Ecuador who’s very good at freestyle, never seen on social media… Then you go to his pizzeria and he does things that are really crazy. There are many unknown talents who either don’t know how to use social media, or can’t travel, or don’t know how to speak the language. So, what we want to do is try to find a way to unite them and export their talent together.
Peppe: How would you like pizza to be a cultural vehicle to represent all these Latin American communities? So to talk a little about their history, their culture, their gastronomy… How do you see pizza helping to spread Latin American culture a little in the world?
Sofía: I think that every country has its own version of pizza, it’s what they like and this is very connected to their gastronomy. That’s why I think that Latin culture can stand out through pizza.
Alessio: Another goal of Latinos en pizza is to make scholarship projects, it focuses on education. Because all these academies, all these schools that exist in Italy must also be brought to Latin America. The problem is that at the moment there is not the same economy that perhaps an American or an Italian can have to pay 1000, 2000, 3000 euros for a course, so scholarships are essential. But also to highlight the talent of those who perhaps start their own business. For example, there are women who have left their jobs, bought a small oven, put themselves on the street and slowly, slowly they are starting their own business. And the culture of the small oven in Latin America for me is very similar to what is perhaps the art of making do in Naples. So you take the stall, you put yourself on the street and sell. The Latin American in this is very similar to the Italian who makes do, tries to do and start from here and then expand. And maybe the talent who started with a small oven and then wants to open a restaurant, we also want to try to connect him with various companies or even at a government level, if there are funds, and also see the expansion. Unfortunately, there is not much education at the level of what you can do, how you can get funds, how you can open a shop, many people don’t know how to do it. And also try to help them at an administrative level. As I told you, many people are good at making pizza, they are not good at social media, so they cannot show themselves, and as you know today social media is an excellent vehicle to show yourself and maybe find someone to expand.
Sofía: Yes and even we who live in America understand that this is what companies are looking for, and maybe they don’t understand this, but we know how to tell a story that companies want to see and I think this is very useful. We want to serve as a bridge to connect everything.
Alessio: There are many American companies that want to enter in the South American market, but also many Latinos who want to expand into the American one, so we are a bridge where we try to unite these cultures, also try to help at the level of education connections.
Sofía: And if you think about it, it’s very interesting, because he is Italian, I am Latina but we live in America.
Peppe: So you represent immigration in its essence, two foreign communities that meet to act as a bridge between their respective communities.
Alessio: For example, we have had a project of our own for weeks, a Venezuelan girl works with us who actually traveled around South America to get to the United States, there is a disastrous situation in Venezuela, people fleeing the country etc…
Peppe: During the tour you also came across the riots in Ecuador.
Alessio: We went to Ecuador and the day before we were in Cartagena in Colombia, [we watch CNN which says] guerrilla warfare in Ecuador, they kill someone, on TV they run away, the gangsters… So you think I’m going there and it’s over for me. When we got to Ecuador the situation was, how can I say, that you had to be careful because at 11:00 at night there was a curfew, few people in the middle of the street. But it was a calm situation, we weren’t that scared but obviously we had to be careful. And now for example in Venezuela – but not only in Venezuela, there are many places in Latin America that are very poor countries where many bad things happen – and we have a girl who for example went from Venezuela to Chile, walking, crossing the desert at night, crossing the rivers in a canoe, swimming… to look for a better life. So from one country to another you look for a better life, you try to get there, to survive. Now she is in the United States, a worker, and she is a person who we have seen loves the world of pizza and just like her there are thousands of others, who maybe either can’t get to the United States, or to other countries, you don’t know until you put it in front of them what they want. And that’s where we want to get to: trying with pizza to give an opportunity to people who maybe today can’t, and this inspiration came to us from what they already do in Naples, for example in prisons where they go to teach pizza. I have a friend who was in prison, and he became a pizza chef. Now he travels the world and I really see in him the passion, the hope, what can be done. So if we can do it, why not.
Peppe: Guys, fantastic chat and by the way Sofía congratulations because you held out the whole time in Italian without giving in to Spanish, also considering the tiredness of the day. We usually close with the ritual question which is: your projects for the future. Actually, you have already told me your plans for the future, so let’s make plans for the present: what is the next thing you will do after you return from Parma… apart from going home to visit your family, Alessio. The first thing you will do for Latinos en pizza.
Alessio: There are many projects in the present, the closest one is to develop our online content as best as possible, so have a standardization. We are already starting to collaborate with some companies, so focus on this. Many people have asked us for memberships, so be part of Latinos en pizza more, create a stronger community and let’s say grow the community.
Sofía: We are talking about starting a section just for women in pizza. And you mentioned Brazil before, we have some Brazilian pizza makers who follow us but they are not many [so] we want to at least make one or two videos in Portuguese, and also take some people from Brazil.
Peppe: Will you also work with the other pizza community that is Women in Pizza, since you mentioned women in pizza?
Sofía: Yes yes, we would like to work with them and we really have to, I think it would be better. There aren’t many non-profit organizations in the pizza world and I think their project connects very well with ours… Let’s see if they’re interested.
Peppe: Perfect guys, thank you very much. It was really a pleasure to have this chat with you and, what can I say, I wish you the best of luck. I will continue to follow you and I also hope to come and visit you at your home so I can see what you do on site, or maybe who knows around Central and South America with you. And anyway I really like the passion and enthusiasm that you are putting into this project, thank you for sharing it with me.
Sofía: Thank you Giuseppe, thank you for inviting us.
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